Technology Overview for Integrated Nuclear – Renewable Energy Systems

You are here

Technology Overview for Integrated Nuclear – Renewable Energy Systems
00:11
... press play your screen not shine you
00:14
need to change yourself ...
00:25
Hello, everyone. I'm Katie Cantos, and
00:27
welcome to today's webinar, which is
00:29
hosted by the National Renewable Energy
00:30
Laboratory. Today's webinar is focused on
00:33
the nuclear innovation clean energy
00:35
future technology overview integrated
00:37
nuclear renewable energy systems. Before
00:41
we begin I'll quickly go over some of
00:43
the webinar features. For audio you have
00:44
two options: you may either listen
00:45
through your computer or over the
00:47
telephone. If you choose to listen
00:48
through your computer please select the
00:50
mic and speakers option in the audio
00:51
pane. If you choose to dial in by phone,
00:53
please select the telephone option and a
00:55
box on the right side will display the
00:56
telephone number and audio pin you
00:58
should use to dial in. If anyone has
01:00
any technical difficulties with the
01:01
webinar you may contact the GoToWebinar's
01:03
help desk at 888.259.3826.
01:32
Before we launch into the
01:33
presentations, I'll provide a quick
01:35
introduction of today's panelists and
01:37
then following the panelists'
01:38
presentation while the question and
01:39
answer session where the panelists will
01:41
address questions submitted by the
01:42
audience. First up today we have Sherry
01:45
Bernhoft,
01:46
who is the senior program manager at
01:48
Electric Power Research Institute.
01:49
Following Sherry we'll hear from Dr.
01:51
Shannon Bragg Sitton. Shannon is a
01:54
manager of systems
01:57
integration, nuclear systems design, and
01:59
analysis division, Nuclear Science and
02:01
Technology Directorate, Idaho National
02:03
Laboratory, and the program lead at the U.S.
02:06
Department of Energy Office of Nuclear
02:08
Energy program on nuclear renewable
02:10
hybrid energy systems. Following Shannon,
02:14
we'll hear from Mark Roots, who's the
02:15
project lead and engineer in the
02:17
Strategic Energy Analysis Center at the
02:19
National Renewable Energy Laboratory.
02:21
Our final speaker today is Dr. Gina
02:23
Shadi, who is the energy program director
02:26
at Canadian Nuclear Laboratory. With
02:28
those brief introductions I'd like to
02:30
welcome Shannon to the webinar. Shannon,
02:33
thank-you very much. Katie, next slide,
02:36
please.
02:37
Before we begin in talking about the
02:41
technology that we are working on I want
02:43
to begin by giving an overview of what
02:46
the Nuclear Innovation Clean Energy
02:47
Future Initiative is. The reasons behind
02:51
establishing this initiative under the
02:52
Clean Energy Ministerial is to begin
02:55
recognizing that nuclear energy is is a
02:57
very important contributor to global
02:59
clean energy supply and it will continue
03:02
to play a role in meeting future clean
03:03
energy goals. However, in many of these
03:06
clean energy fora, nuclear often doesn't
03:09
come to the table. Therefore it was
03:11
recognized that there was a gap and we
03:13
needed to establish this dialogue on the
03:15
role that nuclear can play alongside
03:18
other forms of clean energy. Looking at
03:23
the initiative itself, it has four
03:24
primary focus areas. First on technology
03:27
evaluations associated with coordinated
03:30
energy systems, innovative technologies
03:32
for these systems, energy storage and
03:35
various energy uses that can be coupled
03:37
with nuclear. Second we look at
03:41
engaging policymakers and stakeholders
03:42
regarding the energy choices for the
03:45
future. Third a focus on economics
03:47
including valuation market structure and
03:50
the ability to finance such energy
03:53
systems that we are talking about. And
03:55
finally working on communicating nuclear
03:58
energy's role in clean integrated energy
04:01
systems. Next slide, please.
04:05
Before we get started within the
04:08
detailed slides today I want to just put
04:11
out these three areas. What it is that we
04:13
would like you all to get out of this
04:15
webinar, the technology options that we
04:18
are presenting today, are designed to
04:20
demonstrate that number one, flexibility
04:23
and resilience are necessary attributes
04:25
of our future energy systems, number two,
04:29
that nuclear energy can be applied
04:31
beyond baseload electricity generation,
04:33
where it commonly is applied today in
04:35
order to meet a broader set of energy
04:37
needs across various energy sectors,
04:39
including industry and transportation as
04:42
well, and finally, nuclear plants can be
04:45
coordinated with variable renewable
04:48
generators in order to maximize
04:50
penetration of
04:51
energy in meeting the energy needs that
04:54
we have across all energy use sectors.
04:56
With that I'd like to go to the next
04:58
slide and welcome my colleague Miss
05:01
Sherry Bernhoft from The Electric Power
05:03
Research Institute. Sherry, thank you.
05:06
Shannon, the next slide, please. So Shannon
05:12
teed up that there are some attributes
05:14
of nuclear power that are important. I
05:16
just like to emphasize some of those
05:18
flexible operations has occurred and
05:22
flexible operations is basically defined
05:24
as as non baseload operations this has
05:28
been an important element of operations
05:31
in France and Germany for a long time
05:34
typically though the plants in the u.s.
05:36
throughout the EU and other areas of the
05:39
world have been baseload operated plants
05:42
that means that they sit at 100%
05:43
operations but this is changing and the
05:47
big drivers that are causing this change
05:49
is of course the increase in a renewable
05:52
penetration we're seeing areas of grids
05:55
congestion and we're seeing areas of
05:58
negative pricing and we fully expect
06:00
that this variability that's occurring
06:03
on the grid and driving the need for
06:05
flexible operations is going to continue
06:07
to increase now in about 2014 every
06:12
started looking at some research areas
06:14
in there and formed a technical advisory
06:17
committee and the group has been pulled
06:19
together it's a very global group we're
06:22
proactively looking at some of the
06:23
research needs to understand the impacts
06:25
on the plant so they can continue to be
06:27
safe and reliable as they operate
06:29
flexibly looking at management
06:31
strategies we've pulled in a large group
06:35
of stakeholders including you know
06:37
Shannon's been one of our key
06:38
stakeholders and we share operating
06:40
experience promote safe operations with
06:43
the recognition of flexible operations
06:46
next slide please
06:49
so here's an example this is a very
06:53
typical of what is occurring right now
06:55
in the southwest of the United States
06:58
but this would be any market where
07:01
you're going to see a lot of solar
07:03
operation
07:04
I think a lot of you are familiar with
07:06
the duck belly curve what it shows is
07:08
that during the middle of the day when
07:10
you have high solar or maybe lower
07:12
demand you need to curtail dispatchable
07:16
generation and it expect that to
07:19
continue with more solar growth in many
07:21
of these markets to the point where it
07:24
will start needing to curtail and is
07:26
starting to cause curtailment of some of
07:28
the nuclear power plants but they're
07:30
looking at this curve in aggregate
07:32
there's two things that you want to keep
07:33
in mind one is look at the depth or how
07:37
low some of the plants may need to start
07:39
curtailing their generation and then a
07:41
second area that we need to be looking
07:43
ahead at how we're going to manage for
07:46
the overall grid system is that ramp
07:48
rate that comes in the late afternoon
07:50
evening hours as the solar is no longer
07:54
available and there is a need to start
07:56
providing generation for the peak period
07:59
that happens later in the day we also
08:03
not shown today but there's also several
08:06
plants that are in Upper Midwest nuclear
08:08
power plants in the Upper Midwest that
08:10
are cycling due to wind generation and
08:14
there's also a plant in the upper
08:16
Northwest that is cycling due to high
08:19
hydro generation particularly in the
08:22
spring months next slide please
08:28
one question we get is how can the
08:31
nuclear power plants operate flexibly to
08:35
study that question we looked at three
08:37
different scenarios one is a pre-planned
08:41
case where they can respond to what we
08:44
call some of these high renewable
08:47
responses we do have quite a number of
08:50
plants in the US and globally that are
08:53
operating kind of pre-planned and being
08:55
able to maneuver their plant between a
08:57
hundred to a low of 80 to 70 percent and
09:01
back up to a hundred percent in this day
09:04
duration to be able to respond to wind
09:06
and solar generation there are some
09:09
plants that have a pre-planned window
09:13
where they'll go to a reduced power for
09:15
an extended period of time
09:18
particularly seasonal in the spring and
09:21
the fall they said that's occurring
09:23
right now in the Upper Midwest in the US
09:27
and it's mow that's being looked at by
09:30
some of the newcomers like a UAE in the
09:33
winter and China also in the winter
09:36
months are looking at these pre-planned
09:38
evolutions at a reduced power then we're
09:42
looking ahead also as that duck bellied
09:44
curve or wind causes increased
09:48
variability on the grid do we need to
09:51
start looking at scenarios where you
09:53
have to go lower in power or be able to
09:56
maneuver the plants more rapidly so we
09:59
are starting some of the case studies on
10:01
that what I can say today is that for
10:05
the first two cases this is being safely
10:08
done with some minor changes to the
10:10
plant and their operating procedures and
10:12
their training to start moving into what
10:14
we call the more extreme case that last
10:17
scenario that is going to require some
10:19
modifications to the plant and the plant
10:22
licensing design but what I want you to
10:24
walk out of this today is that nuclear
10:26
power plants are are flexible and they
10:30
are able to integrate with the grid to
10:32
support the situation with some of the
10:35
increasing grid variability next slide
10:39
please
10:40
in looking at the different impacts on
10:46
the plant from an every standpoint we
10:49
put together a large team of subject
10:52
matter experts and these are the
10:55
different areas that we started the
10:56
research on in 2015 you can see them
11:00
looking at the fuel integrity the
11:01
chemistry radiological safety the flow
11:04
accelerator corrosion the various
11:06
balance of plant impacts and the impacts
11:09
that could happen on the primary side
11:11
long term with flexing your plants what
11:15
we have found through the research and
11:18
the gathering of operating experience is
11:20
that flexible operations is successfully
11:23
being implemented right now at a number
11:26
of plants and there are there are
11:28
impacts or some measurable impacts that
11:31
they are being safely
11:32
managed with proper operations and
11:35
training next slide please
11:40
what we want to do is we want to we also
11:43
want to be looking ahead we flexible
11:46
operations is a global issue as I said
11:49
before with the primarily with the
11:51
driver the increase in the renewables
11:52
but also with changing consumer
11:54
behaviors distributed energy micro grids
11:58
there are a number of drivers that are
12:01
going to continue the need for flexible
12:03
operations the and looking at the other
12:06
side with the grid the ability to manage
12:09
the variability on the grid to keep the
12:11
resiliency of the grid up so we do need
12:13
to start looking at a couple of things
12:15
one is what is the ability of the
12:18
existing plants and the new plants for
12:20
faster or deeper maneuvering recording
12:24
some an app was like an accident
12:25
tolerant fuel project but we also need
12:29
to start looking at some of the other
12:31
things that we're being asked what
12:34
long-term are some of the grid services
12:36
that are being provided by the nuclear
12:38
power plants the synchronous generation
12:40
that's on the grid - and how does that
12:44
not need to be factored into the whole
12:46
energy picture to ensure that long term
12:50
you have a good balance on the grid
12:52
between the synchronous generation is
12:55
provided by a large base load unit like
12:57
a nuclear power plant and allowing an
13:01
emerging renewables market and keep the
13:04
grid safe and stable or resilient is a
13:06
term that's being used and then also how
13:10
can we look at the economics of the
13:13
situation
13:14
this is what Shannon is going to get
13:16
into a lot more and that is can we take
13:19
some of this surplus energy during
13:22
periods of low demand and high capacity
13:24
on the grid and find other uses for to
13:28
help improve the overall economics and
13:31
the stability of the grid next slide
13:35
please
13:37
so with that as I transition to to
13:41
Shannon her presentation I just want to
13:44
emphasize when I talk about you know the
13:46
grid and the resiliency of the grid
13:48
these are just some of the key
13:49
attributes that you know today we need
13:52
to make sure as we go into the the
13:54
future scenarios looking at flexibility
13:57
and resiliency that we also allow the
14:01
market to be able to ensure that these
14:04
services are all also still provided on
14:06
the grid and that's other areas of
14:08
research that we're looking at as well
14:11
with that I will turn that over to
14:14
Shannon
14:24
you
14:29
hello Shannon this is Katie I think you
14:31
might still be on you
14:50
give us one a second while we figure out
14:52
some technical issues is Shannon
15:02
I figure it out my apologies everyone it
15:06
seems that we will we be we seem to be
15:08
having some technical issues with
15:10
Shannon Katie my connection just came
15:13
back up it just oh third four so so I'm
15:18
back
15:18
wonderful wonderful well welcome to the
15:23
webinar again and why don't you go ahead
15:24
and get started great thank you so much
15:27
and I do apologize for the gaps so not
15:31
sure you should be looking at the the
15:33
first slide in mind the generating
15:35
energy system flexibility I still see
15:37
the last of Sherry's slides up there we go
15:39
I've got it now. So Sherry talked about
15:43
our nuclear plants can certainly operate
15:45
flexibly from a technical standpoint and
15:48
and from a safety standpoint this is a
15:50
good option as well however we are
15:54
looking at other ways in which we can
15:56
generate energy system flexibility such
15:58
that our nuclear plants can continue to
16:01
provide the reliable base load services
16:05
that they do right now to the grid and
16:07
maintain a very strong economic
16:10
performance by providing excess
16:12
electricity and/or heat to other
16:14
applications our overall goal is to
16:17
provide a sustainable balanced energy
16:19
portfolio that provides us with reliable
16:23
resilient electricity at stable and
16:25
affordable prices so here we are looking
16:27
at the proposed solution that offers an
16:31
integrated solution or coordinated
16:33
solution whereby we utilize energy
16:36
generation from nuclear plants whether
16:39
those be the current fleet of light
16:41
water reactors large scale light water
16:42
reactors or future small modular
16:45
reactors and higher temperature advanced
16:47
reactors in coordination with the other
16:50
generators on the grid when solar as
16:53
well as fossil energy to meet those
16:55
electricity needs as well as to begin
16:57
penetrating other areas of energy use in
17:01
industry production of things such as
17:04
hydrogen that can be used in fuel cell
17:06
vehicles or in other offtake industries
17:09
production of clean water or even in new
17:12
chemical processes that might be
17:14
designed to take advantage
17:16
of the heat and electricity from these
17:19
systems as well in this way we are able
17:22
to maximize flexibility and economic
17:25
performance of these plants while still
17:27
ensuring reliability and resilience next
17:30
slide please
17:32
so here I want to provide an overall an
17:36
overview of the scope of the program
17:38
that we are conducting under the deal we
17:40
office of nuclear energy and we do
17:42
coordinate this program with the
17:45
Renewable Energy Lab and and the office
17:47
of energy efficiency and renewable
17:49
energy also within the Department of
17:51
Energy in the United States when we look
17:54
across the do E and E program this
17:57
breaks down into two major areas at
17:59
first an area of modeling and simulation
18:02
we have been focused on the development
18:03
of advanced tools and conducting the
18:06
Associated analyses that allow us to
18:08
assess the technical and economic
18:11
viability of these types of integrated
18:14
systems as well as to optimize the
18:16
system design and the real-time dispatch
18:18
of energy based on the current demand
18:23
from the grid as well as renewable
18:25
energy input in that particular region
18:27
so I'll talk a little bit about two
18:30
pilot case studies that we are doing
18:32
this year that are focused on specific
18:34
operating nuclear plants in the United
18:36
States
18:37
and working with utility partners to do
18:40
those studies in the second area we're
18:43
focused on demonstration of these
18:45
integrated systems in this case we are
18:48
developing a laboratory to conduct
18:50
electrically heated or non nuclear
18:52
testing of integrated energy systems
18:55
that emulates the heat that would come
18:57
from a reactor from a pressurized water
19:00
reactor initially in order to
19:02
demonstrate hardware interfaces to
19:05
demonstrate complex control systems as
19:07
we maneuver energy from one user to the
19:09
next to demonstrate the dynamic
19:12
operation of these systems so we're
19:15
currently working on the design and
19:16
building components of a thermal energy
19:19
distribution system that will connect to
19:21
a pressurized water reactor emulation
19:24
loop initially connected to hydrogen
19:27
electrolysis in the
19:30
you see in the lower right is included
19:32
here to represent some of our
19:34
collaborations and why we are focusing
19:37
on hydrogen here we are collaborating
19:39
within multiple offices of the
19:42
Department of Energy specifically on it
19:45
with energy efficiency and renewable
19:47
energy looking at the production of
19:49
hydrogen via numerous energy generation
19:54
sources one of which can be nuclear and
19:56
we are working to demonstrate that in
19:57
our laboratory via high temperature
19:59
steam electrolysis we're also working
20:02
with industry with a number of utilities
20:04
via a utility advisory committee that I
20:07
have established in collaboration with
20:10
EPRI, with Sherry, and also working with a
20:13
number of end-users to understand how we
20:16
might efficiently use the energy from
20:18
these nuclear plants internationally
20:21
we're engaged of course with the clean
20:22
energy ministerial via this initiative
20:25
as well as other countries directly that
20:28
are interested in these integrated
20:30
energy system options next slide please
20:37
here I just show an example of how we
20:41
are approaching the optimization of
20:43
these systems without going into too
20:45
much detail and you'll be able to look
20:47
at these in more detail on the slides
20:49
later the optimization approach that we
20:54
are using is multifaceted first we look
20:57
at optimal system sizing so the
21:00
component sizes within the system and
21:02
then overlap that with optimization of
21:05
dispatch of the energy in real time
21:08
based on net demand within a particular
21:11
location so the example that you see
21:14
here in how we are using this
21:16
optimization code and we're using an
21:18
in-house developed code at Idaho
21:20
national average for instance called
21:21
reactor analysis and virtual control
21:23
environment this tool wraps around very
21:26
detailed dynamic models of the system
21:28
that we are modeling in order to allow
21:30
researchers to understand and manage the
21:34
probabilistic nature of these complex
21:35
systems via their numerical
21:38
representations so Raven is used to wrap
21:41
around a code called Modelica where
21:43
we've developed these detailed
21:44
novels and the initial study that we've
21:46
done and the example shown here includes
21:49
a reactor system the industrial process
21:54
here is hydrogen generation we also
21:57
include an energy storage component in
21:59
this case we're beginning with battery
22:01
storage and a gas turbine as well to
22:04
provide additional peaking power when
22:06
needed in order to optimize the system
22:09
performance should we want to direct
22:11
more toward hydrogen production at
22:13
different times so when we do these
22:16
optimizations we are looking at varying
22:21
the system capacities initially to
22:23
design our system in the best way we can
22:25
and we use real data from the particular
22:28
region in this case we're looking at
22:30
wind penetration in the region so
22:32
there's an existing wind farm that we
22:34
have assumed in this region and we are
22:37
also developing those tools to do this
22:39
with solar as well if you go to the next
22:42
slide what you'll see is an example of
22:44
the performance of a system that
22:48
utilizes these different components so
22:52
in this case we've run an optimization
22:54
for component sizing and what I show
22:56
here in the plot is how the energy is
22:58
being maneuvered in the system in real
23:01
times so this is using a net demand
23:05
signature from a particular balancing
23:09
area a particular area within the grid
23:12
and what you can see is that we are
23:13
maneuvering energy from the nuclear
23:16
plant between the balance of plants so
23:18
producing electricity and production of
23:20
hydrogen we set a number of constraints
23:23
within the system on how rapidly things
23:25
can be maneuvered minimum operating
23:28
ranges for instance the hydrogen plant
23:30
is never shut down to zero but has a
23:32
minimum operating range in that and
23:34
we're maneuvering the energy around
23:37
based on the net demand such that we
23:39
always meet the electricity demand in
23:41
the region we have applied penalties for
23:43
missing that demand or for or over
23:46
producing electricity so we can begin to
23:49
understand how the systems might
23:51
maneuver energy in real time in order to
23:54
maintain economic performance
23:56
so we
23:57
go to the next slide you'll see how we
23:59
are now beginning to apply this toolset
24:03
in a couple of different case studies so
24:06
the examples in the previous two slides
24:09
were purely a fictional example of what
24:11
we might look at and now we are using
24:13
that tool first to study the potential
24:16
integration of an existing nuclear plant
24:19
with solar generation a specifically
24:22
solar photovoltaic generation in the
24:25
southwest region of the United States
24:27
specifically in Arizona for the
24:29
production of clean water using a
24:33
brackish water source in that region so
24:35
here we are looking at looking at the
24:37
electrical integration of the existing
24:39
nuclear generation in that region with a
24:42
desalination process specifically
24:46
reverse osmosis but we may also look
24:48
into some other technologies as well
24:51
that is in collaboration with Arizona
24:53
Public Service which is the operating
24:55
owner of Calavera generating station as
24:57
well as every the results of this study
25:00
should be available in the September
25:03
timeframe looking at the economic
25:05
performance of these systems in the
25:07
second case we are looking at the
25:09
Midwest region which sherry mentioned is
25:11
currently being impacted by increasing
25:15
generation from wind so the variability
25:17
we see in this region is very different
25:18
than what we see in the southwest region
25:20
of the u.s. in this case we are looking
25:23
at repurposing or retrofitting an
25:25
existing light water reactor in that
25:28
region to support an industrial
25:31
application in addition to electricity
25:33
production initially we will focus on
25:36
hydrogen generation using
25:38
high-temperature electrolysis and
25:41
looking at the economic scenarios
25:43
associated with using that hydrogen in a
25:45
number of offtake industries for
25:47
instance steelmaking or ammonia
25:49
production as well as fuel cell vehicles
25:52
and this is in collaboration with
25:54
multiple industry partners led by Exelon
25:57
and with consultation from every as well
25:59
on the map on the right you simply see a
26:02
highlight of those organizations and
26:04
companies that are involved in the
26:06
utility Advisory Committee that are
26:08
helping to guide the research that we
26:10
are doing at the National
26:11
laboratories next slide in addition as I
26:16
mentioned previously we are working on
26:17
the experimental demonstration of
26:19
integrated systems this is a rough
26:23
configuration for what we are working on
26:24
in the dynamic energy transport and
26:26
integration laboratory where the
26:29
objective of this laboratory is to
26:30
demonstrate the simultaneous coordinated
26:32
and controlled controlled and efficient
26:36
use of multiple energy generation
26:39
sources for multiple energy uses so as
26:42
you can see we have representation and
26:44
hardware components for renewable energy
26:48
generation including both wind and solar
26:50
we've got a representation of electric
26:53
batteries and we are now building out
26:56
the bottom portion of this figure where
26:58
we are have completed the design and are
27:01
ready to build a loop that emulates a
27:04
reactor the thermal energy input from a
27:06
pressurized water reactor in the middle
27:08
there you see the thermal energy
27:10
distribution system which will also
27:12
include a thermal energy storage
27:13
component and then we have steam user
27:16
processes initially that will be a
27:18
high-temperature electrolysis system
27:21
this is all in coordination with
27:23
real-time digital simulation of the
27:26
power systems that would be entailed in
27:27
a micro grid configuration and allows us
27:31
to look at how this interacts with the
27:33
grid and how we maneuver this energy
27:35
around through these various users next
27:37
slide please
27:40
what you see here is just a snapshot of
27:43
what the lab looked like about a month
27:45
ago so we have a lot of these hardware
27:48
components already in additional
27:50
representation here is the battery
27:53
charging station so we do a lot of
27:55
testing of electric vehicle battery
27:59
charging options and this gives us a
28:01
variable electric load that we can also
28:03
use within this integrated system test
28:05
facility and finally my last slide I
28:10
just want to highlight the fact if you
28:13
go to the next slide please that right
28:15
now our nuclear plants are primarily
28:17
used just for electricity there's some
28:19
additional applications in other
28:21
countries that are being used but in
28:24
United States it's purely for
28:25
electricity what this program is about
28:27
is looking at how we might reimagine the
28:30
use of nuclear energy in order to
28:32
maximize our energy utilization through
28:35
novel systems integration and process
28:36
design so again using that heat and
28:39
electricity and new ways to impact
28:41
multiple areas of our energy sector at
28:46
this point I'd like to hand it over to
28:48
mr. mark Ruth at the National Renewable
28:51
Energy Laboratory to talk about some of
28:53
the economics associated with these
28:55
systems Thank You Shannon
28:58
as Shannon mentioned I am at the
29:01
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
29:02
which is the US Department of Energy's
29:05
office of energy efficiency and
29:07
renewable energies primary laboratory as
29:11
in that role I am leading the effort or
29:15
have led the effort on the EERE side of
29:19
the partnership between the office of
29:21
nuclear energy and the office of energy
29:23
efficiency and renewable energy with in
29:27
this area I'm going to present a few of
29:29
our analyses and the analytical results
29:31
of what we call the nuclear renewable
29:35
hybrid energy systems which are the
29:36
systems that Shannon described where
29:39
thermal and/or electrical energy from
29:41
nuclear plants is used for for
29:43
industrial processes we did four
29:47
specific industrial processes we've
29:49
performed analyses on four specific
29:50
industrial processes here and I want to
29:53
note that all of them we looked at what
29:57
we call green field opportunities in
29:59
other words these are building and
30:01
constructing of as designed plants for
30:05
these purposes as opposed to are as
30:07
compared to some of the analyses that
30:10
Shannon Shannon described where they're
30:14
looking at existing plants we just
30:16
looked at in a slightly different way
30:17
the four different prizes the four
30:19
different and nuclear renewable hybrid
30:21
energy systems that we analyzed are
30:24
shown here on this slide as our for each
30:27
one of them the reports reporting their
30:29
results I'll show some results in this
30:31
very short presentation but obviously in
30:33
the interest of time I won't be able to
30:35
get to very many of them you feel
30:37
free to download any of those reports
30:39
and find more information on any of
30:40
those so the top two well the upper the
30:44
process in the upper left is focused on
30:46
producing liquid transportation fuels in
30:49
other words converting natural gas to a
30:51
liquid fuel using a lot of thermal
30:53
energy generated by a nuclear reactor
30:56
well at the same time allowing that
30:59
nuclear reactor to produce electricity
31:00
for the grid in coupling with a wind
31:03
power plant the one on the upper right
31:06
is very similar to the Arizona design
31:08
that Shannon mentioned which is looking
31:10
at using a reverse osmosis desalination
31:13
option with a nuclear power plant and
31:16
PVE photovoltaic electricity generation
31:19
to support both the grid and then to
31:21
produce desalinated water or potable
31:24
water that differs at one of the key
31:27
ways that differs from the one in the
31:28
upper left in that is that the one in
31:30
the upper right only has an electrical
31:32
coupling between the nuclear power point
31:35
and the industrial process whereas the
31:37
liquid transportation fuel option on the
31:39
upper left has both a thermal coupling
31:41
and an electrical coupling in other
31:43
words that that industrial process uses
31:46
both heat and electricity as opposed to
31:49
just electricity upper right as we move
31:52
through our analysis we added a another
31:54
option which just looked at the use of
31:56
thermal energy because we were finding
31:58
that the the use of thermal energy is
32:00
very valuable the thermally generated
32:02
energy from a nuclear plant is very
32:04
valuable however because the nuclear
32:07
reactor a nuclear reactor just producing
32:11
thermal energy and electricity and
32:12
following the grid as Shannon describes
32:15
the net load on the grid would not
32:17
produce thermal energy in a way that is
32:20
constant as most industrial processes
32:22
needed we added a thermal storage option
32:24
and an electric boiler option to be able
32:26
to produce a constant thermal product
32:28
and then on the bottom right we analyzed
32:31
two different options for for producing
32:35
of hydrogen
32:36
one option is high-temperature
32:38
electrolysis which has both the thermal
32:40
under the electrical coupling and the
32:42
one on the bottom right and and the
32:43
other is a low temperature electrolysis
32:46
on the right side which has just
32:48
exclusively an electrical coupling to be
32:50
able to produce high
32:51
in those cases not only could
32:53
electricity the electrolyzers could use
32:56
not just electricity produced by the
32:57
nuclear power plant and/or the wind
32:59
plant but also the the grid itself
33:02
purchase power from the grid the process
33:06
that we used that are the questions that
33:09
we were asking for within the analysis
33:13
is is the nuclear renewable hybrid
33:15
energy system more profitable than
33:17
uncoupled configurations and then
33:18
computing technologies through a
33:20
question we were asking is where does
33:22
this technology make sense as opposed to
33:24
other technologies from the viewpoint of
33:27
the owner in an analysis question number
33:29
one and in number two which does the
33:31
flexibility help support the resource
33:33
adequacy of the power grid and does it
33:35
increase profitability the first part of
33:37
that question is asking how my nuclear
33:40
renewable hybrid energy systems support
33:42
the grid and what's the value to the
33:43
grid and then does that impact the
33:46
profitability of the plant so the
33:49
process that we use is somewhat similar
33:51
to the one that Shannon described in
33:53
terms of their modeling optimization
33:55
however we've looked at a lot more a lot
33:59
more of the environmental issues in
34:01
other words following our process we
34:03
were able to look at different grid
34:05
generation makes us different prices
34:06
different external factors on the
34:09
nuclear renewable system and to be able
34:11
to do that we developed a grid or we
34:14
analyzed the grid and each one of those
34:16
two locations that we looked at Texas
34:18
and Arizona that had very high
34:20
penetrations of wind or solar
34:22
photovoltaic generation depending on the
34:25
location that grid then gave us a very
34:28
highly variable grid one that was even
34:31
more extreme than in the duct curve that
34:33
sherry described and then within that
34:37
grid we use a security constrained
34:39
production cost modeling option to
34:42
estimate the cost of producing
34:43
electricity during each hour of the year
34:45
so during hours where there's very where
34:48
there's a very high load and very
34:49
limited amount of renewable generation
34:53
there would be very high cost to do to
34:55
the needs of running peaking natural gas
34:58
plants natural gas combined cycle that
35:00
other plants on that grid we then added
35:03
a capacity payment way
35:05
added an incentive to be able to provide
35:07
electricity during the high need hours
35:09
the 50 hours per year with the highest
35:11
load and then having that information as
35:15
well as the capital and operating costs
35:17
we did a dual optimization somewhat
35:19
similar to what Shannon described where
35:21
we optimize what is the optimal
35:23
configuration in other words which sub
35:25
components are necessary and what is and
35:29
then how would they be operated The
35:30
Dispatch between them to be able to
35:33
perform our analysis I'm only going to
35:36
show results on one of the numerous
35:38
configurations that we considered this
35:40
is the one that was at the left side of
35:42
the lower right one several slides ago
35:45
and it's a nuclear renewables energy
35:47
system of high-temperature electrolysis
35:48
in this case we were looking at this
35:51
this couple of the both a thermal and
35:54
electrical coupling of the nuclear
35:56
reactor and the high-temperature
35:57
electrolyzer
35:58
to be able to produce hydrogen and
36:01
electricity could also be produced by
36:03
either the wind plant and/or the power
36:05
grid as well as the nuclear reactor tool
36:08
to produce the hydrogen and we ran it
36:10
through our analysis process in this
36:13
slide we start to show some of our
36:15
results so what we did is we buried as I
36:18
mentioned we buried the external factors
36:20
so we had this highly variable
36:22
electricity price over 8760 hours of the
36:25
year and then we added a multiplier to
36:28
it you can see the multiplier on the
36:29
y-axis of this of this figure on the
36:33
left so we used the at one it was just
36:36
numbers that we got from the production
36:37
cost model I - we doubled those costs so
36:40
anything any electricity ahead is zero
36:42
cost was still zero but if the
36:44
electricity cost would say $70 per
36:46
megawatt hour it would then be $140 per
36:49
megawatt hour for that given hour on the
36:51
Y are on the x-axis we varied the price
36:54
the selling price of hydrogen so the
36:57
cost competitive selling price of
36:59
hydrogen is shown by that black dot
37:01
which is about a dollar 30 per kilogram
37:03
that's produced from steam methane
37:05
reforming in our case and then when we
37:07
buried that all the way down to
37:08
essentially zero value and all the way
37:10
up to ten dollars per kilogram selling
37:12
price of hydrogen we then ran our
37:14
optimization as I described for both the
37:17
mixture of
37:18
the component and the and the dispatch
37:22
within it and you can see where it was
37:25
where there was a prop where it met our
37:27
our hurdle rate of 10% after-tax and
37:32
that is everywhere where there is a dot
37:34
where there the different colored dots
37:36
tell you which configurations meet the
37:39
met the hurdle rate and we're most cost
37:41
competitive I don't show the other cost
37:43
competitive ones that were that are that
37:47
were not as complete of a configuration
37:49
so the upper right is the full nuclear
37:52
renewable hybrid energy system showed by
37:54
the pink dots and that includes a
37:56
nuclear reactor the thermal power cycle
37:58
the wind renewable electricity
38:00
generation and the high-temperature
38:02
electrolysis as you can see at
38:04
electricity price multiply you would
38:05
include those electricity generators
38:08
above one at the upper left you start to
38:11
see that you would not produce hydrogen
38:14
generation so the orange dots show that
38:16
there's just a nuclear reactor thermal
38:18
power cycle and renewable electron of
38:21
the renewable electricity generation or
38:22
wind generation which shows that there
38:25
you're exclusively trying to produce
38:26
electricity and there's no value for
38:28
dehydration because it's too far to the
38:30
left that kind of diagonal line that
38:32
moves from the purple dots the yellow
38:34
dots out to the pink dots shows where
38:37
the break break off is on the left head
38:39
you want to produce as I said you only
38:40
want to produce electricity on the right
38:42
side you want to produce hydrogen as
38:43
well going up to down there's also a
38:46
break point where in kind of a light
38:48
blue dots in the middle there's there's
38:52
the desire to bridge hydrogen but not to
38:54
produce any electricity or the optimal
38:56
configuration is for hydrogen but not to
38:58
produce high electricity from the
39:00
nuclear reactor so in other words
39:01
nuclear reactor produces heat and then
39:04
the renewable energy and purchase
39:06
electricity produces hydrogen because
39:07
that's the most profitable configuration
39:09
and the yellow it's the electricity
39:13
price is so low that there you just want
39:15
the nuclear reactor to repeat and then
39:17
you want to purchase electricity and
39:18
then on the purple dots on the lower
39:20
left you start hitting a point where
39:22
there is some value to compete in the
39:24
electricity market as well so that gives
39:27
you a list of the configurations moving
39:30
down to the next slide you start to see
39:32
how much electricity is purchased as I
39:35
mentioned in the lower part the optimal
39:37
configuration purchases them as much
39:39
electricity as is possible because the
39:42
electricity price is so low whereas the
39:45
amount of purchasing as you move up to
39:47
the right is much lower to produce or
39:51
you use self generated electricity
39:53
either from the nuclear reactor and
39:56
thermal power cycle or from the wind
39:57
cycle and as you move further up you've
40:00
used more and more from the nuclear
40:02
reactor itself
40:04
this figure shows how much capacity is
40:09
provided to the Isetta figure shows how
40:13
much but electricity is provided based
40:15
on different capacity payments the three
40:18
different figures match the figures we
40:19
had before but instead of showing the
40:23
configuration or the utilization of
40:25
electricity they show the amount of
40:27
capacity awarded so the dark blue shows
40:30
a full capacity payment in other words
40:32
the nuclear renewable hybrid energy
40:36
system is taking advantage of as much
40:38
capacity payment as is possible at three
40:41
different levels
40:42
hence the three figures with the lowest
40:44
level of capacity payment of $50 per
40:46
kilowatt year on the Left hundred
40:48
dollars per kilowatt year in the middle
40:49
$150 per kilowatt year on the right and
40:52
the higher the capacity payment
40:55
incentivizes more more priced
40:57
combinations to be able to meet the
41:00
profitability requirement and to be able
41:02
to design for the full nuclear renewable
41:05
hybrid energy system the base case that
41:07
we use was the hundred dollars per
41:09
kilowatt hour and hence we ended up in a
41:12
capacity payment point where where we
41:16
wanted that the full nuclear renewables
41:18
hybrid energy system as much as possible
41:20
above an electricity price multiplier of
41:22
one as that payment goes up we would
41:25
want a higher we would want that fully
41:28
configurable nuclear renewable hybrid
41:30
energy system more often as shown on the
41:34
right in conclusion what we found was
41:39
that hybridization and flexibility
41:41
improves the profitability however it
41:44
does not make sense for an
41:46
to design and operate hybrid systems as
41:49
the one of our proposed unless there is
41:51
sufficient incentives from the energy
41:55
system that pays for those services one
41:58
of those incentives is a capacity
42:00
payment and when that's large enough
42:01
then you'd want the full configuration
42:03
and want to support the grid and during
42:06
the key hours however that distill does
42:08
not happen unless there's a high enough
42:09
value for the for the industrial product
42:13
and for the electric
42:16
energy. With that I'd like to
42:20
turn over the presentation to dr. Jean
42:24
Astrati at the Canadian Laboratories in
42:28
Canada to be able to present some of the
42:30
work that they're doing in terms of
42:32
implementing some of these designs
42:38
Thank You Marc I think I'm off mute
42:43
great thank you very much for the
42:45
opportunity to talk to you a little bit
42:47
about some of the clean energy research
42:49
that we're engaging in at CL my
42:53
presentation is at a bit of a high level
42:55
cuz I want to give you a flavor of the
42:57
type of work that we're doing and some
43:00
exciting things that we're planning to
43:02
do in the future next slide please
43:07
this slide is really for those of you
43:09
who are not familiar with the chakra for
43:11
laboratories and Canadian nuclear labs
43:13
so we have a large large size nine nine
43:17
thousand one hundred acres and about 200
43:20
acres of lab complex nestled on the edge
43:23
of the Ottawa River and we have 17
43:25
nuclear facilities engaged in a variety
43:28
of different research in addition to
43:30
clean energy research we are also
43:32
engaged in Health and Environment
43:34
nuclear research as well next slide
43:37
please
43:41
so when I think about integrated nuclear
43:45
and renewable energy oh I think my we
43:48
went one slide too many when I think of
43:50
integrated nuclear and renewable energy
43:53
I really do this as a very holistic
43:56
problem where we're all of these
43:59
different types of technologies these
44:01
clean energy technologies nuclear and
44:03
renewables work together synergistically
44:06
to provide enough power for for us to
44:10
live the way that we want to live and
44:12
use the new technologies that enter the
44:15
market on a regular basis so this would
44:17
include the wind power the solar power
44:19
nuclear power and hydrogen production to
44:22
power our vehicles our homes and our
44:25
industries so really it is like the
44:29
other panelists have talked about a real
44:31
synergistic problem that we need to
44:35
focus on together and not separately so
44:38
really nuclear as a standalone isn't
44:41
enough I think to cover all of the needs
44:44
globally for clean reliable energy next
44:49
slide please
44:51
we really are I think experiencing an
44:55
environment for success in clean energy
44:57
options there are a lot of domestic and
45:01
international initiatives that are
45:02
really setting the stage positively for
45:05
us to be able to achieve a synergistic
45:08
clean energy solution for the world's
45:11
energy needs and it goes beyond me the
45:14
SEM and nice initiatives and other
45:16
agreements in Canada alone we've
45:18
targeted doubling our research
45:21
development money and for demonstrating
45:24
clean energy technologies there is a lot
45:26
of interest provincially and nationally
45:28
in deploying small modular reactors and
45:31
an increasing low-carbon energy
45:34
solutions for remote communities and
45:36
industries and just recently an art ken
45:39
has supported an industry led SMR
45:42
roadmap that encourages alignment of the
45:44
Canadian SMR industry and answers the
45:47
question what does that look like for
45:48
Canada and how does a small modular
45:51
reactor fit into our clean energy needs
45:54
slide please
45:58
part of our clean energy program we
46:01
focus on a number of different areas for
46:04
our current existing fleet as well as
46:08
new and advanced reactors I've
46:09
highlighted two of these areas that I
46:12
think are really important to advance
46:15
future clean energy integrated
46:18
technologies and that is our goal to
46:19
demonstrate the commercial viability of
46:22
a small modular reactor by 2026 and our
46:26
goals to decarbonize the transport
46:28
sector and renewable communities in Canada
46:30
through our hydrogen research so those
46:33
two areas in particular are really
46:37
critical to being able to demonstrate
46:39
these integrated solutions for our
46:42
energy needs next slide please
46:48
the small modular reactors are very
46:51
talked about today it is a technology
46:55
the small reactors and advanced reactor
46:57
technologies are are really could be
47:00
very transformational in the way that we
47:03
approach energy generation and location
47:07
of small reactors within communities
47:09
that are otherwise isolated from large
47:11
electrical grids so we really view the
47:14
small reactors as an enabling element of
47:16
an integrated clean energy solution next
47:20
slide please
47:22
part of our goals to move the deployment
47:26
of SM ARS in Canada forward we are
47:29
really focused on having the talk river
47:32
laboratories and other CNL managed sites
47:34
as demonstration sites for a small
47:38
modular reactor we've looked at our
47:41
different sites and have identified more
47:44
than half a dozen areas that could be
47:47
conducive to building a demonstration
47:49
project for SMRs last year we solicited
47:54
input from the global community on what
47:56
an SMR industry in Canada would look
47:59
like and specifically on the need for a
48:03
demonstration of this new technology in
48:05
Canada and there was a really positive
48:07
response to that request and so this
48:10
year we've moved that that yardstick a
48:13
little bit forward and have issued an
48:16
invitation in April for SMR
48:18
demonstration projects so we'll have
48:21
this invitation for projects on a
48:25
biannual basis so twice a year we will
48:28
look at and assess any projects that
48:31
vendors or other interested parties want
48:34
to cite at one of the CNL sites and this
48:39
year we had four responses to our
48:41
invitation for submissions of a project
48:44
so we think that that's really exciting
48:45
and very exciting news for the nuclear
48:47
industry in general we've divided our
48:53
sighting project into four stages just
48:57
to allow a bit of a staggered approach
48:59
in reaching the goal which is a project
49:03
execution of building a small reactor
49:05
demonstration at a CNL site three of the
49:09
four responses that we got fell into our
49:12
stage one which is essentially a
49:15
pre-qualification type of stage but one
49:17
proponent was already at a stage two
49:20
type of application going through the
49:23
different stages we would of course have
49:24
more more detailed information required
49:28
of proponents and we would do a more
49:31
thorough due diligence on our part in in
49:33
looking at the proponent
49:36
their technologies fit for that
49:38
technology in Canada and the fit also in
49:41
terms of this holistic view of these
49:45
demonstration reactors with other
49:47
technologies next slide please
49:54
our hydrogen research is also focused
49:57
ultimately in cogeneration of hydrogen
50:00
with the small reactor but more
50:02
short-term we're looking at the
50:03
transport sector there is a lot of
50:05
renewed interest in using hydrogen for
50:08
transport hydrogen for domestic vehicles
50:11
large large vehicles trains we've done
50:16
some feasibility studies to look at at
50:19
hydrogen the hydrogen trains in a large
50:22
urban center in Canada to prove that
50:25
there that it is a competitive
50:26
technology to an electric train or other
50:29
green options for for that kind of
50:33
commuter train scenario so we're very
50:36
excited to see this this sort of
50:38
movement it allows us to focus on
50:41
hydrogen production with sufficient
50:43
amount of production to to fuel all of
50:46
these vehicles that we hope to see on
50:48
the roads and also the safety aspects of
50:51
hydrogen if ultimately we would like to
50:54
couple a small modular reactor with
50:56
hydrogen production in sort of a remote
50:59
community or an industrial off-grid site
51:02
it's really important that we understand
51:04
the safety aspects of that hydrogen
51:06
production and that all of the
51:09
regulations are in place and we have all
51:12
of those safety questions answered
51:14
before we look at that holistic solution
51:17
as well we're starting to look at
51:21
questions like how would you lie since
51:23
small modular reactor and a hydrogen
51:26
production plant together so these are
51:28
questions that we can start to look at
51:30
now and provide those responses and and
51:34
data to support government regulation
51:37
and decision making next slide please
51:42
and I'll just end my my presentation
51:45
with this concept of a clean energy
51:47
research park so we're looking now at
51:51
establishing a clean energy research
51:53
park at the choc river laboratories so
51:57
we're in the early stages of this
51:59
concept but really what it is is to
52:01
provide a venue by which people can test
52:05
their clean energy technologies
52:07
alongside the nuclear research that
52:09
we're doing so we want to be able to
52:11
host technologies that want to
52:14
demonstrate affordable reliable local
52:16
low-carbon energy systems holistically
52:21
to show that that really it is this this
52:25
connection of all of these renewable
52:28
technologies and nuclear that will
52:30
create the energy needs that we that we
52:33
need for the future domestically and
52:35
also internationally
52:38
and I think that is my last slide so I
52:43
will turn turn the last slide over to
52:47
Cheri thank you I'm going to go back to
52:53
where Shannon kind of started us she had
52:56
our three points and one of the points
52:58
she made is that nuclear power plants
53:01
can be coordinated with renewable
53:04
generation to help maximize our need for
53:08
a clean energy future and hopefully
53:11
through the course of you know today's
53:13
presentations that point has been well
53:17
Illustrated we start it with that you
53:22
know flexible operations as a need it's
53:24
a growing need right now for existing
53:27
plants but if you look the overheads
53:29
we're also looking at how we are using
53:32
everything we're learning from flexible
53:33
operations so the next generation of
53:36
plants also has that ability right from
53:39
the start to be flexible and even more
53:41
flexible we need to consider going
53:44
forward other things to also increase
53:47
the flexibility of the plants ensure the
53:51
grid resiliency we talked about some of
53:53
the critical grid services and also how
53:57
we can focus to maximize the economics
54:00
of the plants as well we talked about
54:03
the the integration with the energy
54:06
systems to produce a usable product and
54:09
the economics with those those studies
54:12
are underway from an industry standpoint
54:14
there there's a lot of interest around
54:17
those and there is a lot of interest
54:19
that we also continue to look at other
54:21
things that help support the plants long
54:23
term like like the robust fuels the
54:26
enhancements to the design of the plant
54:28
even into the future maybe some you know
54:31
thermal storage thermal bypass options
54:34
and then of course the hybrid energy
54:35
systems so innovation and advances in
54:40
technology are needed and they're
54:43
happening right now I think with that
54:46
we're ready for questions wonderful
54:49
thank you so much sherry and thank you
54:51
to each of our panelists
54:52
those outstanding presentations as we
54:54
shift to the question and answer session
54:55
I just want to remind our attendees to
54:58
please submit the questions using the
55:00
question pane we only have a few minutes
55:01
left of the webinar so I encourage
55:04
everyone to still submit their questions
55:05
and any questions we do not have time to
55:08
get to will connect with those attendee
55:10
offline after the webinar our first
55:13
question today I'm gonna direct it to
55:15
one of our experts but any of the
55:17
experts please feel free to jump in and
55:19
add anything you want to to the question
55:22
our first question is for Shannon
55:24
Shannon our integrated energy system
55:27
options applicable to both existing
55:29
fleet reactors into advanced reactors
55:32
and was one of these options a better
55:33
fit than others Thank You Katie yes
55:37
absolutely these options are being
55:40
considered both for existing fleet and
55:42
advanced reactors they have different
55:43
challenges associated with both when we
55:45
think about existing fleet reactors the
55:49
easy option is looking at electrical
55:51
integration such as the study we're
55:53
doing with reverse osmosis that requires
55:55
the fewest regulatory changes and
55:58
reviews associated with that however
56:02
that does not negate the fact that we're
56:05
also looking at thermal integration
56:07
those are larger challenges associated
56:09
with retrofit of an existing facility to
56:12
thermally integrate with other processes
56:15
such as hydrogen production as we have
56:17
discussed however it's something that is
56:20
possible and these regulatory challenges
56:22
are not something that can't be overcome
56:24
and we're working through that right now
56:26
with regard to advanced reactors these
56:29
integrated energy system options can be
56:31
built in from the beginning with the
56:34
design of these systems and review and
56:35
licensing of the systems and advanced
56:38
reactors often often offer higher
56:41
temperature operation that may provide
56:43
more efficient connection with some of
56:45
these other applications but there are
56:48
techniques that we can apply for lower
56:50
temperature light water reactors in
56:52
order to boost the heat coming from
56:54
those such that we still can't achieve
56:56
integration with some of the higher
56:58
temperature applications albeit perhaps
57:00
at a slightly lower efficiency wonder
57:05
thank you so much Shannon our next
57:07
question is for mark mark our attendee
57:10
wanted to know in this integrated system
57:12
renewable energy taken with or without
57:14
subsidies thank you that's a great
57:18
question there are there are a lot of
57:20
assumptions that are made within the
57:23
analyses that we performed and I invite
57:25
anybody interested in those assumptions
57:26
to take a look at at the three reports
57:29
that are cited on the slides that I
57:31
provided in our rule of thumb was that
57:35
there are absolutely no subsidies
57:37
included for for renewable energy for
57:40
nuclear energy for prefer investment or
57:45
for production in any way shape or form
57:47
so in other words with everything
57:49
competing on a technology and cost
57:53
only basis now that said there are
57:56
obviously assumptions around what the
57:57
technology costs and efficiencies are
58:00
that are included and we perform
58:02
sensitivities around a number of those
58:04
to be able to allow us to be able to
58:06
think about a range not just our
58:08
projection but then arrange around those
58:09
projections great thank you Mark um I
58:12
think we have time to maybe squeeze in
58:14
one or two more questions
58:15
sherry our next question was for you um
58:18
in the Midwest and Northwest regions is
58:21
cycling on a daily basis or more of a
58:24
seasonal thing that's good it's
58:28
definitely in the upper northwest it's
58:31
seasonal spring and fall based on the
58:33
hydro flow in the Upper Midwest it's an
58:36
interesting case study it started off
58:38
primarily as a seasonal again the spring
58:41
and fall being kind of those shoulder
58:43
months but now we're starting to see
58:45
that it's moving into the summer as well
58:49
the
58:52
wonderful and we're having tons of
58:54
questions coming in from the audience
58:56
again if we don't have a chance to
58:58
answer those we'll definitely connect
59:01
afterwards I'm our final question I'm
59:03
opening to the panel is why prioritizing
59:06
hydrogen over battery over battery
59:08
storage of electricity does anyone want
59:11
to comment to that so in terms of the
59:14
analysis that we that we performed at
59:16
NREL we prioritized industrial processes
59:20
looking especially at an alternative
59:23
product for example hydrogen or
59:25
disseminated water or the liquid fuel or
59:28
even a thermal product as part of our
59:31
analysis we have extensive other work
59:34
going on in other projects that are
59:35
looking at a electricity storage whether
59:38
that's battery storage or flow batteries
59:40
or compressed air energy storage or even
59:43
pumped hydro there's a lot of different
59:44
electricity storage options that we have
59:47
other analyses using similar techniques
59:49
and somewhat comparable work between
59:52
them I think that the opportunity then
59:54
is to have a discussion about which is a
59:55
higher priority based on the result of
59:57
all these analyses wonderful does anyone
60:00
else want to comment to that okay great
60:06
and with that I'm sorry to say we're out
60:07
of time since we have such wonderful
60:09
presentations again thank you I want to
60:13
extend a huge thank you to all our
60:14
expert panelists and to our attendees
60:16
for participating in today's webinar
60:18
again as we said for all the great
60:20
questions we didn't get to will connect
60:22
with those people after the webinar we
60:24
very much appreciate your time and hope
60:26
in return there's some valuable insights
60:28
that you can take back to your
60:29
ministries departments or organizations
60:31
please enjoy the rest of your day and we
60:33
hope to see you again at future nice
60:35
event this concludes our webinar
60:39
you