Hello to all, this is Anne Wagner with the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. I’d like to welcome you to today's webinar FEMP Re-tuning Challenge It's brought to you by the federal energy management program also known as FEMP. I'd like to share with you a few logistical items before we get started first a link to today's presentation was sent to all registrants earlier this week. The webinar is being recorded and a follow-up email will be sent to all attendees with a link to the video. At this time all participants are in listen-only mode. You may submit a question at any time during the webinar event by using the question pane on your computer questions will not be answered via the computer but we'll be handling them live following the presentation as time allows we will do our best to address as many questions as possible and following the webinar we will assemble a frequently asked question document and we will share that with our registrants. Also during the webcast you can hit f5 on your keyboard to enlarge your view of the slide Our presenters today include Nile Nmair and Jay Wroble from FEMP. Also Nick Fernandez and Dave Hunt who are research staff at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory we'll be presenting. Our first speaker is Nile Namir he's a program manager at the US Department of Energy FEMP. He has a wealth of knowledge in both facility requirements and energy conservation. He has worked for three different government agencies with 30 years of experience in facility design and construction. Also we'll hear from Jay, Jay Wrobel who is the manager of facility and fleet operations at the US Department of Energy FEMP. Where his team supports federal agencies in meeting energy related goals and implementing advanced technologies and practices. Jay has over 20 years experience and the energy and their energy efficiency sectors. They'll be followed by Nick Fernandez who's a research engineer at Pacific Northwest National Lab. He's been with us for over 10 years and has worked on a variety of projects including building modeling commercial building retuning and self-correcting controls for HPA systems. Dave Hunt will follow. He has contributed to energy efficiency program activities at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory for over 25 years. Dave currently supports the FEMP operations & maintenance program. Prior to PNNL Dave work for federal agencies as a design and energy engineer. At this time I'd like to hand it over to Nael and he'll talk a bit about the retuning challenge webinar. Thank you so much. Good morning everyone. I want to welcome everybody to the, to the challenge webinar and what I'd like to do is the next few slides go over some of the objectives and why, why FEMP is doing this webinar. So the objective of the webinar is or for the retuning is want to share with you how we how it's going to be done and build your capability then train-the-trainer that is the number one goal for FEMP. Okay we will discuss today why FEMP is sponsoring this challenge. What is re-tuning and what is the next steps for you guys. Okay, also I wanted to talk to you about the working group that we are creating for the O&M like Ann said I'm managing the O&M program for FEMP and we would like to start up a new working group I referred to it earlier to some of you in the presentations as the problem-solving team. Okay, why FEMP is sponsoring this challenge. Okay, re-tuning is really an effective low cost method for reducing energy. Okay, re-tuning identifies the opportunities through the BAS system or the building automation system we have seen from previous re-tuning initiatives savings between five and actually on your slide says 25 (%) what we've seen higher than that and I think we've reached 30% in some cases of a simple payback you know from several months to three and a half years payback that's really very quick payback. We also would like to you know retuning is not a standalone initiative it is part of an overall energy management program at your site and we would like to discuss with you the how the re-tuning fits in with your overall energy management. Such as the ISO 50001 or the ISO 50001 ready that DOE is sponsoring. Hello, this is Jay Wrobel from FEMP. I want to thank everyone for being on the call and to spend just a brief minute or two on the 50001 ready program for those who do not know this is a USD re-created program and the intent of today is not to basically go through all this in detail but to introduce it because you'll see this as part of your questionnaire with regard to those sites were interested in participation and the returning challenge at a higher level is mileages said re-tuning is a part of active energy management or continuous improvement and to help that process DOE has created a recognition program around a structured energy management system and we call that program 50001 ready the important thing to know about this is it's a no-cost program and it's a daily recognition for all sectors manufacturing commercial federal institutional there is no certification or third party audit requirements or a verification requirement as well and basically it's a DIY program at the same time DOE offers a lot of technical assistance tools all three to end-users and we see a lot of application within the federal sectors which is why we're trying to bring this program to market really what it is is it's a repackaging of a lot of things that people are already doing it for managing energy and it's that repackaging the way that it's the ISO 50001 structure so we go to the next slide why this is important is because we've done a lot of research at the Department of Energy on 50001 process and what we found is that we have seen up to a doubling of energy performance improvement a facilities that I've done fifty thousand one versus those of their own that have not so typically if we look at energy use data we see an energy intensity we see about a 1% improvement nationally per year industry leading about two and a half percent but we've seen through verified data is five or higher percent per year improvement the important part of that is most of that is o&m related savings and things like re-tuning retro-commissioning and just general basically O&M improvements have led to the savings that have been seen so the program we've created is called 50001 ready it's basically three things one is we ask folks to develop their 50,001 plan - we look at the energy data improvement and then three we does ask for self attestation of conformance at that point then the U.S. Department of Energy will recognize the facility for being 50,001 ready again there's more information for the next slide there's more information I promise program we're happy to talk to more people in depth later this is a good example though from Tinker Air Force Base who is 50,001 ready now to them they found basically it's a way they change their internal processes just in a way to save additional energy also one of the highlights is they basically view this as another way to apply their operational discipline which is obviously something that the military is very good at towards managing energy as well as the current things they operationalize our facilities so again this is nothing new it's a repackaging what you have and we're hoping to get some involvement through the returning challenge so with that I'll hand it back. Thank you Jay. So what is the re-tuning what is the re-tuning challenge it's really a way to provide agencies with training and apply such training to their buildings in the their portfolio. sites can also participate even though they might not be selected so even if a site is not selected we're trying to arrange it for the sites that are selected that training can be offered at their sites. we will provide the following support for the selected sites we will let complete re-tuning of one of their buildings we will train the staff the site staff and the staff that are attending from other sites as well we will provide technical support for everyone and finally we will provide some monitor results monitoring and presentation the site participation sites are interested that they will be screened for retuning applicability and Nick and others will actually provide you more details on that later on in the webinar the selection will be made by June 27th and the activity will include make an adjustment to HVAC system it's basically at the at the best level of your facility and with that I'll turn it over to Nick. This is Nick Fernandez I manage PNNL’s re-tuning program within the GSA portfolio let's start with an overview of re-tuning and I'll do a deeper dive on some of the concepts and results from retuning in later slides retuning is a process of improving control of existing building energy systems centered on the BAS a centrally controlled building it is part of a continuous improvement process for the building the principles of retuning can be best understood by categorizing them in terms of one of the four sidebar principles on the right which I'll get into later in addition retuning focuses on identification and correction of faulty control infrastructure as well as adopting strategies for better monitoring and control into the culture and mindset of the building operators for example the use of trend data and training on how to manipulate the reset parameters that are implementing implemented is part of the retraining process benefits of re-tuning have already been discussed a little bit by Nael and these numbers do come from our experience and validation with with GSA buildings that most buildings fall within that 5 to 25 percent savings range and have that cost savings of point three to three point five year payback period and an eighteen point five cents per square foot per year of cost savings so this slide talks about the retuning methodology and how its applied and this is something that would probably be elaborated on a lot more within a training session so this kind of gives you an idea of what to expect from from the retuning training so there are two complimentary approaches to deploying retuning a checklist approach helps to systematically identify which common approaches constitute relevant opportunities at the site and then investigation problem-solving helps to uncover problems that may not be obvious while looking at the control sequences on the bas so for example the plot on this slide shows an electric load that's intermittently turning on and off rapidly perhaps indicating a chore staging issue in other cases odd trend data behavior or unexpected load profiles can serve as symptoms of inefficient operations that need to be diagnosed through further investigation of the control and scheduling of building energy systems so these are the sidebar principles that I'll get into that appeared on a couple slides ago the first principle is called turn it off we're in the idea is to identify energy systems that are operating when their services are not required at all this includes a choose air handle units another scheduled HVAC systems whose schedules can be tightened in some cases utilized optimal start for a variable startup time other common systems include building lights if their schedules are controlled by the building automation system snowmelt systems and garage ventilation and conditioning systems boilers insurers can also be shut off based on outdoor air temperature to force the building into a single heating or cooling mode the HVAC design and the occupancy characteristics of the building facilitate such lockouts these lock outs often exposed faulty sensors or actuators that requires a locked out system to cover up or otherwise cover up otherwise poor conditioning second principle is to turn it down you need to take systems with variable operations set points and to tune them so that they consume as little energy as possible during park load conditions most common strategy is a reset which is a form of feedback control that uses sensor data from the building or the outdoor conditions to intelligently change set points like fan static pressure pump differential pressure chilled water hot water and condenser water temperature another approach is night setback which relaxes building thermostats set points during an occupied hours third principle is mitigation of simultaneous heating and cooling building HVAC infrastructure is often composed with systems that have two potential to sequentially cool then heat and Airstream before it enters the zone and it's not uncommon to encounter systems where the conditioned air may be sequentially heated then cooled then heated again under improper control two measures that can work in tandem to address these issues are supply air temperature reset and minimum VAV air flow set point reductions in more complex systems such as those with dedicated outdoor air systems feeding into conventional Vav air handlers a holistic management of set points throughout the chain is required these systems may also contain enthalpy wheels that in most cases save energy but can be operated inappropriately in ways that lead to simultaneous heating and cooling zone level tightly controlled thermostats can be a source of heating then cooling then heating or heating in one zone with cooling an adjacent zone and the air mixing in between so widening the service side dead bands and/or synchronizing zone set points can avoid these forms of energy waste and finally the fourth principle is to reduce infiltration and outdoor air especially in hot or cold climate infiltration can be managed by addressing inappropriate or excessive use of exhaust systems and by using feedback to control air handling unit relief fans or dampers based on sensor measurements of building static pressure outdoor air introduced intentionally for ventilation can be minimized using co2 sensors for demand control ventilation and by scheduling minimum outdoor air damper positions to zero during unoccupied hours and reducing the position during occupied hours if ventilation is determined to be excessive okay when formulating retuning recommendations there are several principles that help to ensure success the first is to stick to tried-and-true methodologies and best practices one great resource on retuning measure sequences is ASHRAE and particular Stephen Taylor's written a series of essays on different retuning measures and how they are best implemented in the absence of any experience at the building in varying set points starting with standard minimum and maximum set points have been successful at other buildings is a good idea for example a range of 55 to 65 degrees Fahrenheit or good initial balance to put on a supply air temperature reset for some measures there are a wide range of potential feedback variables again it's going to choose feedback variables that are worked well in similar resets at other buildings finally it's good to know when to apply different strategies for resets like trim and respond programming versus linear or span resets so trim and respond is usually more effective when working with multiple feedback variables like zone dampers or zone cooling demands that feed into a single control variable whereas linear resets are the clear choice when working with a single feedback variable like outdoor air temperature the second principle is to pursue the path of least resistance it is often the case that you can get 90 percent of the potential savings with say 20% of the work that would take to achieve all of the potential savings if there's a limited amount of time and money dedicated to the retuning effort it's best to pursue a broad adoption of a range of measures that use a good strategy rather than to focus on perfect implementation of a single measure and leave a lot of opportunities on the table in this light it's best to incorporate into resets and other programming control points and feedback variables that are already being calculated at the building on the BAS and to tune modify or enhance existing resets if they're reasonably functionable rather than reinventing the wheel with a brand new strategy finally choosing a sample of zones for feedback is often a good choice for example a hot water differential pressure reset might be formulated to use feedback from hot water coils but there are often several hundred coils in a single in the building and taking an average of a few dozen is probably a good enough approach other principles are to take into account observations of the baseline state of the building what kind of set points have building operators settled on for control civic systems any reset of that variable should probably have a range that's inclusive of that value unless there's evidence that the current setpoint is not a thoughtful choice on the same line it's always smart to talk through the specifics of a recommendation with building operators to get their take and understand if there's any history or other in-house knowledge that would shed a light before finalizing a recommendation affecting multiple building systems ok lastly before finalizing a recommendation affecting multiple building systems it's good idea to perform a demonstration on one or more systems first besides validating the algorithm that can help to inspire confidence and facilitate long-term adoption by the building operators ok so this slide shows an example of the kind of recommendations that are provided as part of a returning effort the point of the slides not to read through this text but just to show that the recommendations have a narrative structure that describes a problem or opportunity within the baseline building and how it was investigated and lays out a new sequence of operations that has sufficient detail to serve as a clear blueprint for a control contractor or for anyone at the building or organization who wants to understand the rationale and the details the recommendation so a couple of best practices discussed in the last slide are highlighted here I'm using investigation problem-solving taking into account observations about the baseline state of the building and I'm sticking to tried-and-true methodologies and best practices to initiate a new control so now I'll get into some of our experience with with GSA in terms of the hard numbers for energy savings and the persistence of savings so to give an idea of the expected results of retuning this the GSA portfolio provides a large sample not only have we performed retuning at a larger number of buildings but we've also been responsible for determination of ongoing savings on an annual basis for years after the returning effort at every site we visited so I'll show two slides that shed light on energy savings results through time after retuning this first slide shows the results of a cohort of 42 buildings for which we have annual savings data for at least three years after each sites for tuning visit so two sites had major occupancy reductions and they were excluded from the analysis so we're trying to be honest here savings is broken into electricity and yellow natural gas or steam in red and then the total energy in gray the aggregate savings was nine point two percent in the first year and twelve point nine percent in the second year and that additional three point seven percent savings in year 2 versus year one can be attributed to the fact that many sites take several months to a year to schedule the completion of the retuning measures that were identified and started during the returning site visit so the the twelve point nine percent is a good average for the ultimate savings potential from retuning from from the GSA work and then for year three of magnitude savings we see is pretty similar to year two at twelve point one percent and then finally we have a smaller cohort of twenty five buildings where we have four or more years or yeah four more years of post site visit savings overall a savings is persisting into year four however we have observed a handful of buildings that have showed some regression and there are some important lessons to be learned from those buildings there are three reasons we see four buildings that fail to maintain it's a small number of goings it's probably ten to 15% the building's we visit will drop off the map in terms of their savings so some of the reasons are one certain buildings fail to maintain their control infrastructure like sensors and actuators and as those controls don't work as intended the operation staff may start to override the automatic programming that was put in place second there could be a change in maintenance staff and the incoming staff are unfamiliar with the building's history and the retuning measures and how that was all put together and so they override set points to control the building as they know how from their experience and then third is a this is only happened once but a default control sequence is prior to returning effort may get restored following a controls upgrade or a power outage so that's an important thing to try to avoid if you have a BAS upgrade so the ideal retraining process would involve some kind of ongoing monitoring maintenance of controls and training of new staff to ensure persistence of savings a few GSA regions with strong internal advocates for retuning have had the best success maintaining or improving the savings beyond year 3 this slide shows the actual achieved simple payback periods for the GSA portfolio the graph plots the payback period against the building floor area on a log-log plot the graph helps to reveal a strong correlation between the building floor area and the payback period so basically retuning scales very well and we often achieve roughly the same savings in percentage terms regardless of the size of the building so larger buildings multiply the cost savings about linearly overall among all GSA sites the simple payback has been around six months and three quarters of the sites are below three-year paybacks this includes the total contracted costs for PNNL but it doesn't include additional costs formed by GSA such as retaining a controls contractor to complete measures that we didn't complete on site that can sometimes add another 20% to the to the cost so keep that in mind okay so now we'll get into the specific schedules and processes that we following during the returning challenge this timeline is broken into two slides with three steps each the first step is the screening process which will enter into in the weeks after this webinar there are two stages to the screening candidate sites should first submit a screening questionnaire that addresses the basic requirements of the program by April 22nd then approve sites will be prompted to submit an evaluation questionnaire that addresses site suitability for retuning so we can select the best candidate sites that questionnaire is due May 28th by June 27th sample announced the final site selection after that process the next step is a pre site visit preparation for the selected sites that will include a precise visit coordination call and transfer of some preparation materials like interval meter data trend data and BAS screenshots to PNNL if you have the ability to give us remote read-only access to your bas then that can make the process a little easier the the site visits from PNNL announce the candidate sites will occur between the end of July through the end of the calendar year and will include retuning training session identification and implementation of retuning measures and then after PNNL site visit the building or agency will be responsible for completing implementation of the agreed-upon measures at that building you know will provide complete documentation of findings recommendation implementation status and action plans and we will also initiate monitoring and verification of energy savings after PNNL training of agency retuning representatives those agency reps will also be responsible for identifying and retuning another site within their agency by January 24th 2020 and so this is this is the train-the-trainer component that we want sites to demonstrate that they can they can take take those lessons and and forth on their own tree - in their own buildings finally a final report will be provided to each site and agency that compiled light feedback from the the retuning process highlights - verified energy savings and overall outcomes and lessons learned this slide is a bit of a deeper dive into what the the site visit will look like kind of breaking it down by day so you expect a three to four day site visit the the first day would be a presentation training session for agency representatives who will be involved in the future internal retuning effort at their other building and then a building walkthrough with the operations maintenance staff building management and those same agency representatives so it's still hard betraying that the walkthrough and then day two is a BAS review an interactive training session so we'll be looking to identify retuning measures and and formulate the recommendations and will be an ongoing dialogue So it will be also part of the part of training process we like to still have those agency representatives there on day two so it will require your O&M staff to be present and to discuss those measures with them and any conflicts and limitations that we should be aware of that will help us to better formulate those recommendations and then we may have some potential demonstration or testing of some of the measures at her on day to day three and four will be continued implementation of agreed-upon retuning measures in some cases this may require a retention of a controls contractor paid for by the agency who is familiar with the building in the BAS programming finally after the visit the controls contractor may need to return to complete those measures again that would be paid for by the agency so this is a list of the list of some of the characteristics of good building so these are things to to kind of look for as you're deciding which which sites to submit for for the challenge in the level 2 screening so we're looking for large buildings at least a hundred thousand square feet but ideally something even larger let's say three hundred thousand square feet as I mentioned the retuning process scale as well so that would lead to higher higher cost saving sites with with high baseline energy consumption relative to similar buildings and similar climates are good indications especially if you don't have an explanation of why the energy is higher you know if it's if it's not a mission-critical 24/7 building but it still has higher energy consumption that's maybe something to look at buildings with that has digital controllers actuators and thermostats give us the best opportunity to implement the kind of retuning measures that we typically implement working for buildings with a modern BAS ideally updated we can pass five to eight years a BAS with control of systems like chillers boilers and and lighting systems of buildings with substantial penetration of variable speed drives into their pumps and fans buildings with single dot resin dual ducts air handling unit presence of dedicated outdoor air handling systems provide extra complexity that often reveals some some opportunities for savings we're not really looking as much for mission-critical buildings because it's often it's often hard to to agree to retuning changes at the building if if there's if energy is not as important as as the mission of the building and then we're also looking at for buildings that have little to no previous attempts at retuning or Control Centered energy savings projects we don't want to be picking the highest hanging fruit from the tree so to speak oh and then one more thing the site should have an active energy plan in place. Thank You Nick this is Dave Hunt and I'm here to take you down now through the end stages of this what what what your next steps are before going into that like to go over a couple items first of all we're scheduled to run through the top of the hour which gives us some time if we happen to run over the top of the hour we will have time to because we want to address all the questions that we receive and if you have to leave as an noted at the beginning of the call we will be sending out frequently asked questions and responses to those so you will have available to you all the questions and answers and with that also as a reminder that if you have a question please use the question pane located located on your on the panel on your screen so so far what we've discussed today there was an introduction to retuning it's a Nick talked you through what how retuning is addressed in characteristics of the buildings and the expectations that would of participants in the challenge there is also an introduction to 50001 ready and in your slides there are links for you to obtain more information on 50001 ready what we're going to discuss now though are what are you going to do with this information if you're interested in participating in the retuning retuning challenge the first thing you need to do for your site is determined that there is indeed an interest to participate and by an interest to participate that would include your site is willing to implement identified measures that your site staff will participate in the training that is offered to them and those staff will then proceed to under under PNNL supervision or system to do a retuning of an agency building on their own and that those results will be shared then as a part of the retuning challenge outreach effort later on other factors would alright excuse me those criteria are identified in the screening questionnaire that was sent out preceding this challenge the screening questionnaire that was sent out then is due to the submission information is due once it on April 22nd and that the instructions for those submissions is on screening questionnaires themselves we've mentioned that there are there will be two questionnaires in this process for the sites that meet the criteria that are presented in this first screening questionnaire we will ask you then to submit the evaluation the subsequent evaluation questionnaire that will like that will likely come to you in early May and those would then be completed evaluation questionnaires of you submitted at the end of May within the screening questionnaire some items that we'd like to highlight are we're asking for general information on the site we're asking for some identification information on the path that will participate along the way but included in there are some hard criteria that identify here the first of which is that the building does have an HVAC system that is controlled by a centralized building automation system the second being that metered data or that building is available that would be interval metered data ideally you would a sitemeter it could also be a utility meter but we'd have to be able to access the data and then the third criteria are the commitment of the site - as mentioned before to implement the identified measures participate in training and to then use the site trait the trained staff to agree to another site or agency building a part of this of this effort is we will live or be interesting insights that are able to host personnel from other sites as a part of the on-site site on-site training and also we will be interested in working with sites that are in the process of or have already implemented 50001 ready so today is the kickoff the official kickoff of the retuning challenge we've shared the information and the key data on here is April 22nd that's when we're you're screening questionnaires argued back to us and then the subsequent evaluation questionnaire if you're asked to provide that will be in at the end of May. And FEMP is targeting site selection final site selection by the end of June and Nick presented the other milestones along the way that will involve the the PNNL working with your site so the takeaways and the next steps are to please to look at your site and and and determine if you're willing to make the commitment to the retuning challenge and if you are submit those completed screening questionnaires to us if you're looking for additional information on on building retuning what is it what are the principles there is some detailed information available at the website building retuning dot pnnl dot gov if you have any questions on the retuning challenge please forward those or submit those questions to FEMP retuning challenge at pnnl dot gov and if you'd like talk to Nael Nmair the program manager for O&M in the retuning challenges contact information is available here as well so with that we've completed the presentation portion and we're ready to move on to the question-and-answer thank you all very much Nael, Jay, Dave, Nick you really great information here we have received quite a few questions about the challenge as I mentioned before we'll be addressing them at this time and we will also be following up with a frequently asked question document if we do not get to your question because there's limited time then we intend to include it on the FAQ also don't forget there is the question pane if you have not submitted questions yet and I have several questions here that I'm going to be asking so that they're with me right my first question is regarding the 50001 ready and it asks is 50,001 ready a requirement to participate in the child challenge and I'll let Nael answer that while it's not a requirement to participate in the challenge or for the fight to be selected retuning should not be it's not the answer to everything it should be a part of your overall energy management program and the 50001 ready is gives you a great architecture for having a very successful energy management program we've seen a lot of savings even for active energy management programs when they incorporate the 50001 they actually realized even more saving so it is not a requirement but it is preferred by them to have that and we be happy to provide more training and support we understand that some of you may this might be the first time they heard about the 50001 we'll be happy to provide you trading and support on that great Thank You Nael also I did make a note of my own during the presentation and Nick gave good information about GSA as an example also they have our retuning team has worked quite a bit with the army and have seen very similar results so I want to let you know that we've worked with various agencies and have seen consistent results and some similarities so we're finding out about a about commercial flight buildings and such what a surprise maybe not my next question regards how does retuning differ from retro-commissioning and I'm going to let Dave Hunt answer that one please Thank You Ann um the retro commissioning and recommissioning can encompass a lot of procedures we if they may add s HVAC lighting other control systems water even or even envelope systems and when we hear of eight of recommissioning we tend to think of that in terms of functional testing making sure all the equipment is working correctly not all buildings need all that level of commissioning and there may be cases where buildings really need to have a recommissioning focus recommissioning type focus on the control systems and in those cases that's where retuning is good or applicable so think of retuning is a subset of re and retro-commissioning that to consider when you have building automation systems Thanks Dave. I have another question here it looks like it's for Nick and the question is will the retaining activity involve making adjustments to the HVAC system? yes absolutely it will and as a follow-on thought to that because we are making adjustments to the HVAC system it is really critical that at least a vast majority of the systems and components the FDS sensors actuators must be an improper working order so we really don't want to encounter the situation we visit a building where the sensors aren't reliable and things are overridden and things like that because they haven't been commissioned thank you I have another one here for Nick and it's asking does the audit include looking at water? we will look at water in the event that there's really good metered data for water so particularly looking for interval metered data at least the our level and that that gives us the kind of data that we would need to identify any problems or opportunity okay thank you actually I have several questions I'm going to kind of make sure we cover them cheers that regarding ownership who's managing things like that so the question one of the questions is worded I think very helpfully which is do buildings need to be federally owned as opposed to lease I'm going to give you a little bit more on that one too because there are some various as far as ownership and I think the answer probably address is also as far as who's managing the building I guess if would you like to speak about what makes it what makes your site eligible so there can there can actually be a number of arrangements regarding ownership the key here is that the federal agency realizes the cost savings from retuning so if you federal site owns the building and is paying the utilities then clearly they would receive the benefit from the energy savings the other case would be a leased building and it's only service lease where utilities are paid unless there's a way to get some sort of equal of lease payment consideration and the answer is no the government when you can see the benefit in the site would not be eligible but if they're in a lease arrangement where the government is paying utility bill then yes that's site would be eligible okay thank you Dave I've got one here and it's asking about active energy plan says could you elaborate on the requirement about an active energy plan and I'll go ahead and let Nael handle that you know we've been talking about the the overall energy management plan for a site and again retuning is a part of that it's not the answer for everything but it is a good opportunity now Jay talked to you guys about the 50,001 energy management program and the recognition by Dewey again I understand that a lot of you may not be familiar with the 50001 and I want to renew my my offer that would be happy to provide the training and support walk you through the 50001 I suspect most of these sites are probably about 80 to 85 percent there if not higher it's just formalizes that that that energy management plan would be happy to provide more training on this and maybe set up like a call or a webinar to talk about the 50001 and again the recognition by the Department of Energy for sites that have incorporated that certification is not required but there is a recognition that we can provide to sites who adopt the 50001 ready thank you I have another one here for Nick and it is do you require remote access to the BAS? no that is not a requirement it's something that can make everyone's lives easier otherwise it becomes a bit of an iterative process where we have to get represented from the site to get us the data we need and so this requires a little more back and forth by email but it's not a required them and also for Nick how deep do you get into the programming of the BAS or will you just look at that point setback cetera? we do get into the deeper into the programming and it's why we often will require a BAS Contractor especially if it's a uncommon BAS that we don't have in-house expertise in programming with for certain BAS systems we do have in-house expertise for the common systems like a CIO Niagara's all right I've got another one for Nick when implementing multiple new reset strategies for a building how do you determine which is the most effective and how do you structure the programming to prevent different strategies from competing and negative feedback loop? well it's it's kind of a building specific determination of which one's going to be more effective and there's no there's no easy answer to that part of it I think on the question of competing measures that's the example that comes to mind for me is a supplier temperature reset and static pressure reset can be two resets that that affect the amount of cooling that's delivered to to a zone and so there may be the potential for those to compete with each other that's the best way to avoid them getting into any kind of competition is to just use different feedback variables for those those two resets if they're both being implemented and and then there there are sequences as you see where the same feedback variable is used and in that case there's sort of a staging approach where you require a higher threshold for the same variable to go into the next one so for example static pressure reset might be the first stage for you know 30 percent average cooling demand Michigan at 50 percent then you start to to do higher temperature reset or something of that nature but generally we use different feedback variables for for anything that might compete but it's not very prominent but you run into that okay thank you I've got another question here and it is asking is there only one retune study available per federal agency? oh okay so that's the question I’ll give that to Dave. yeah I think the question is up might there be more than one site be selected for a federal agency that that's why your that that question and so our decides are being selected yeah where there will be a limited number of sites and they're going to be selected on those lights that present the best opportunities not only for retuning but also reaching out to the within that agency and the local agencies that are able to participate in training and Nael would you like to follow along with that yeah I mean the the part of the preference again what FEMP is trying to do with this is not just retune one or two facilities at each site and then walk away and we're done it's to provide the maximum outreach to the federal agencies so as we select fights and we look at those sites the ability for that fight to host other agencies especially in in their local area even if I decide to travel to to participate and that would be looked at highly and we would prefer that so we're trying through this is to come up with again not just retuning the facilities but ways to retune trading education and pass that on to all agencies whether their sites were selected or not okay I've got a question here and it says if meters are installed but not working on a site, can your team help with troubleshooting broken meters? and I would say this is beyond the scope of the reasoning challenge so we'd love to help you unfortunately that that's not covered by this particular activity at this time but we do want that a another question had been do say does the site need to provide the interval data or can they fill out the form so that the retuning team can get the interval data from the utilities and I don't know… if there's a process by which we can and gain access we're happy to do anyway work on our end up to get the interval data here we are after the DIA yeah however it comes in it's not a big okay well we have come up on the hour and we've gone just a smidge over I do know that Nael would like to make an additional comment and I believe that will that will be it thank you very much for joining and oh if it's Nael okay yeah I just want to emphasize one thing we're not after highlighting negative things that each byte or the sites that participate we're after the positive we want to make sure that you know lessons learned and success stories are passed to other agencies we don't really care about even identify the agency so an agency has an issue we might just not even mention that agency so again we are in we were interested in making a difference across the the government across the federal agencies though as sites participate we will be very sensitive to their concerns and we will try to address those concerns in a satisfactory manner to them and with that I think this concludes the webinar and will want to thank everybody for participating and we provided earlier the the points of contact for or this webinar and the whether it's the retuning or the 50001 please take advantage of those and thank you very much for participating.